'I would rather not be reborn
than be reborn in India'

What do you mean when you say India is headed for a disastrous future?

Disastrous future because our so-called leaders do not lead the people but mislead them. They are responsible for people acquiring passions for religion and caste. Eightytwo per cent people belong to the backward classes and those who get elected belong to those castes. You cannot do that.

And who are inciting these people to vote on the basis of caste?

These so-called leaders.

1946 was the year you topped the (Original Side) Bar examination. A year later you witnessed the triumph of the Indian struggle for Independence. What expectations did you have from free India?

I would say ask me no more for fear I should reply.

My expectation was so great. What fine leaders we had. We had some of the world's finest leaders. But none of them would get elected today.

Take a man like Mahatma Gandhi or a man like Abul Kalam Azad. They have no place in India today.

In fact the type of people who won India its Independence no longer have any prospect of ever getting elected. This is all the result of your damn adult franchise. I completely agree with Chawla's article.You know what he said, he quoted Sir Walter Scott saying, 'A man with soul so dead, who never to himself has said this is my own my native land.'

He said I'm such a man and God forbid if ever I have to be reborn I should be reborn in this country. I wrote a letter to The Times of India saying that he was right and I completely agree with what he said. I would rather not be reborn than be reborn in India. It is such a waste of human energy. Your life is wasted.

When I see the people and the difficulty they have in educating their own children, I tell myself I would never ever want to be reborn in a country where to put my child in school I have to bribe somebody. To buy a railway ticket I have to bribe somebody. This is not the way to lead an honest life.

You have been an observer of political developments in this country - the long Congress regime, briefly intervened by the Janata Party, the National Front and now the United Front at the helm. When do you think the decline of India set in?

Yes, I have been a close observer of Indian politics and I would say it was after the death of Jawaharlal Nehru in 1964 that the decline began.

And who do you think was responsible for this decline?

Only the elected representatives because we had such third rate men elected to office. I am not blaming them because they found out that only by acting as they did, they would get votes. So I take a very depressed view.

I do not blame anybody who takes a dim view of the future of this country. If I had any children I would not like the child to live a life in this country.

The people who have migrated abroad, I don't blame at all. There are about 15 million Indians residents abroad.

And our population goes on increasing. You cannot let it go on like this.

Today it is 970 million, maybe even more. The government will do nothing to make sure the population doesn't increase like this. China does it, but India does not. Why? Because it thinks that it will lose votes.The very fact that it would lose votes tells you about the intelligence of the people.

They will not vote for a government that tries to control the population. It makes me so sad.

This process of decay that has crept in, is there no way it can be reversed? Is there no way India can be salvaged?

It can be. It is a long process.

It can be salvaged. It can be reversed.

It can be... well, it can be reversed and salvaged. You will have to educate the people. Education is the only solution, there is no other way because there is enough intelligence in this country.

Indians come to me and I am surprised by their level of intelligence and skills. Why? Because those skills have come down over the centuries. This country has known civilisation for 5,000 years. When we started as a republic we had some of the best men. The world has not produced anyone superior to Mahatma Gandhi.

Do you think India will remain a united nation 50 years from now?

I do not think India will remain one nation. I am not saying I wish it would not, it will perhaps. But there's no good chance of India remaining one nation. There is a cultural bond, I'm not denying that. There's a cultural bond which makes India one. But that cultural bond will give way to political pressures.

People are so hungry for office, they are not interested in the country. In India, to an individual the things that counts most is his own advancement, his own development, his own progress and his own prosperity. Second is his party. He would like his party to benefit.

The nation is nowhere at all in the calculation.

Many believe our country may be balkanised?

It is bound to be balkanised. I believe it will be balkanised, not that I wish it. I don't wish it at all.

I think it will be a disaster if India becomes balkanised but there is a fair chance.

And with the reduced foreign investment I find today -- reduced if you look at the potential of the country which is so great. Even this reduced investment is due to human greed.

It is known that this country has great capacity so they think that people will be born who will lead the country properly. They will not. I mean there is no chance.

But anything can happen. I am a great believer in God. And I do believe whatever God wishes will happen. I am saying barring acts of God and His grace which may come to India.

You said this degeneration is because our leaders are callous and do not take the nation with them. What about the people of India, how are they responsible?

They are responsible because they have elected those buffoons to power. I am not blaming the people because they were led to believe that you must vote for your caste, your community, your religion. How can you possibly run a country like this? You are not giving any importance to the country at all.