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The Rediff Interview/ Prataprao Bhosle

'Pawar should be expelled'

In a style now perfected by the party, the entrance of the Maharashtra State Congress Committee headquarters in central Bombay had an assembly of workers -- all seated on a dhurrie, shouting slogans in favour of "Mananiya Sonia Gandhiji."

Inside MPCC president Prataprao Bhosle is livid at Sharad Pawar. "We have already asked for his expulsion," he stresses. There is talk in the office that Pawar has erred greatly in revolting against Sonia Gandhi, and will not have substantial support from state MLAs. "See, there is an MLA here who was yesterday showing solidarity with Sharadrao, but today he is with us," says a Pawar detractor.

A senior Congress leader claims Pawar is a spent force in Maharashtra politics. That in the 1996 general election, under his leadership, the party managed just 15 of the state's 48 Lok Sabha seats, so it is unfair to think that Pawar engineered the spectacular performance in last year's general election.

Bhosle -- a longtime member of the anti-Pawar camp -- is certain the Congress will emerge stronger and Pawar could not have made a greater mistake. In a conversation, surrounded by several MLAs, he spoke toSyed Firdaus Ashraf and Archana Masih.

How will Mr Pawar's revolt affect the Congress in the general election in Maharashtra?

We have suffered no setback.

Is it not true that Pawar is considered to be a very powerful leader in Maharashtra?

Let me remind you that when Pawar was not in the Congress in Maharashtra, the Congress existed as the ruling party and he was in the Opposition.

When Rajiv Gandhi invited Mr Pawar to join the Congress in 1986, he must have done so after realising his strength in the state.

Pawar too convinced everybody that he wanted to rejoin the Congress. That is why we all agreed.

Credit for the Congress's spectacular performance in the 1998 general election has been given to Pawar.

Of course, he worked hard. But the major credit goes to Sonia Gandhi. In 1996, Pawar was in Maharashtra as leader of the party, what happened? We won only 15 out of the 48 seats. In 1995, he was the chief minister and under his leadership we fought the assembly election and lost the state to the BJP-Shiv Sena. We bagged only 80 seats out of the 288 seats. I am not blaming him. I am just revealing the facts. So, who has to be given the discredit for this defeat?

But you cannot deny that he was responsible for the Congress victory in Maharashtra in 1998.

Where am I denying it? If he gets the credit for 1998, who takes the discredit for the 1995 assembly and 1996 Lok Sabha elections?

Several Congress MLAs came out in support yesterday.

There are nearly 100 Congress MLAs and MLCs in Maharashtra; hardly 12 of them were present yesterday. Of the party's 33 Lok Sabha MPs from the state, only four support Pawar.

His supporters say the Congress leadership accords importance to leaders who lose elections. Arjun Singh, Ghulam Nabi Azad...

It is not good to mention such things in democracy. Today, Sonia Gandhi is our leader but she has not contested a gram panchayat election. This is no criteria. About Pawar's supporters, don't go by the numbers. Our position will be strong and I am confident of it. Yesterday, I slept at 3 am. Local leaders were calling me from all over Maharashtra expressing their support for Soniaji.

Mr Sudhakar Naik, one of his adversaries, has joined hands with Mr Pawar. What do you think brought this change?

It will be better if you ask Sudhakarrao about this.

Why has there always been an attempt to sideline Mr Pawar in Maharashtra politics?

Who said that? In the last 10 months I have never opposed him. These charges are completely baseless.

How far will this move affect his political career?

Immensely. He will gain no political advantage. I feel sad for him. I have demanded that he be expelled from the party and some action is taken against him.

But Mr Sangma and Mr Anwar too have made the same demand.

How can I comment unless I meet them? But I can say they have taken a wrong step.

Do you think there is a feeling that a foreigner should not rule our country?

No. I don't agree. In 1998, the Congress fought a general election under Sonia Gandhi's leadership. Those who are stating that the Congress has suffered a setback because of her foreign origins are the same people who went to her home and asked her to campaign for the Congress and save the country.

More recently, we had an assembly election in Delhi and three states. People voted for the Congress knowing that she is our leader. And credit for this goes to Soniaji. Also, when the CPP meeting took place, everybody supported Soniaji and told her to elect a new leader. Sharadrao has said many times that Sonia must be the prime minister. He said this in Lucknow, Delhi, Mumbai and Varanasi. At that time, why didn't he realise that she is a foreigner?

Why do you think he changed his stance?

I don't know. Whatever the BJP says, he is repeating their words. I am surprised. He is playing the role of the RSS.

Why has he never been successful in his bid for the prime minister's post?

You ask him. Today, he is talking like the RSS. This videshi problem is a RSS agenda.

Do you think this is his last ditch attempt to fulfill his prime ministerial ambition?

Let me tell you. I was in Delhi when the Vajpayee government fell. Everybody was speculating as to who the next prime minister will be. Not once was Pawar's name proposed. More importantly, no regional party supported his name. So, how can he become prime minister? I don't mind anybody being ambitious. But someone must take his name for the top post.

How many Congress MPs and MLAs are with him today?

I don't think many of them are with him. People may go to meet him, but that does not mean they support him. Whatever these MLAs or MPs give in writing, I will believe that. Our leader is Sonia Gandhi and she must reconsider her resignation.

Why are Congress leaders insisting on her leadership? After all, there are many other leaders in India...

Anybody can become the leader, but the people of India want her to become prime minister.

In the last 11 years not a single person from the Nehru-Gandhi family was prime minister of India, so why do we need the dynasty to rule the country? After all, we have been running the country without them for the last 11 years.

That is why you see this condition of the country today.

But a Congressman, Narasimha Rao, ran the country for five years.

Soniaji supported him then. I was a MP then and I have seen it. You tell me, why did people go to her home to bring her back?

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