The Rediff Interview/Vazhappadi Ramamurthy

'I am challenging Moopanar. Let him go to the polls alone. Let us see in how many places the TMC will lose its deposits!'

Vazhappadi Ramamurthy was the first minister to resign from the Narasimha Rao ministry, in protest against the administration's stand on the Cauvery waters dispute. A bitter critic of Rao, he resigned from the Congress and was one of the founders of the Indira Congress. Late last year, the prodigal politician returned to the fold, along with breakaway faction leaders Arjun Singh and Narain Dutt Tiwari.

However, it has not been a happy homecoming. The Congress at the national level and in Tamil Nadu is in a mess. The dominant political formation is the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam and the Tamil Maanila Congress, whose leader Govindaswamy Karupaiah Moopanar has long been Ramamurthy's political rival.

As Moopanar emerges as a likely replacement for Prime Minister H D Deve Gowda, Ramamurthy spoke to Shobha Warrier.A revealing interview on Moopanar and the state of the Congress party.

You are just back from Delhi. What happened there?

Nowadays, my frequent visits to Delhi are in connection with the Jain Commission enquiries which has reached the argument stage now. Apart from that, I have had discussions on the dissolution of the Tamil Nadu Congress Committee and the subsequent setting up of an ad hoc committee.

In my opinion, the formation of the committee and the appointments were done in haphazard manner. They did not apply their mind fully in appointing the committee because after the general election, the Congress is in a bad shape in Tamil Nadu. Even those in the party are not in a position to come forward and work for the party.

Are they disillusioned?

Yes, disillusioned. Under these circumstances, when a change is being made, it should be made for the better and not for the worse.

Did you tell the leadership this?

I met the Congress president and others who are in charge of the state. I appraised them. But I do not know... They are not giving much thought to the provincial committees, especially that of Tamil Nadu. I feel sorry, that's all I can say.

Don't you agree that the central leadership, from Indira Gandhi onwards, did not allow any strong leader to come up in the states, and that is why you have weak units at the state level?

If you look at it now, it is all a part of history. Stalwarts like Kamaraj, S K Patil, Sanjeeva Reddy ganged up against Mrs Gandhi. When she was pushed against a wall , she had to act and she did. Because of that only, the state leadership has not grown. But it was never like this.

In Tamil Nadu, whenever she appointed somebody, it was always for the betterment of the party, not like this. Whatever credibility the party had has been lost.

Would it not have been better for the Congress if you had inner-party elections?

Yes, that was what I have been saying for the last 25 years! A quarter of a century. 1972 was the last election we all saw. Even after 25 years, the party is not in a position to conduct its own elections. How do you expect the party to be vibrant then?

It will become a damn squib. You are not giving the cadres a chance to elect their own leaders, the leaders are thrust on them by Delhi, then why should they work in these conditions? They will say, let some leader come from Delhi and then we will see. This is the attitude of the cadres.

If the Congress is not going to conduct elections every two years, I see a very bad future for the Congress.

All over India elections were conducted during Rao's time, but not in Tamil Nadu because of Moopanar. Moopanar knew he would be defeated in the elections, so he went on preventing it in Delhi. You might have seen what mockery of elections was conducted in the TMC under his leadership. Was that an election? It was nothing but imposing somebody on the workers.

The feeling was that K V Thangabalu was appointed president of the ad hoc committee because the Congress leadership felt that with him at the helm, unity with Moopanar would come about easily.

There are two-three things which I cannot understand. If the high command wants a patch-up with Mr Moopanar who humiliated the Congress very badly, they should do it and not Mr Thangabalu. I don't think Mr Thangabalu is the person who can do this because it should be done at the AICC level itself. Moreover, what stature does this Thangabalu have to go and talk to Mr Moopanar?

This is a very ticklish point which I can't understand. Another thing is, the person who was appointed by the AICC is proclaiming that the TMC is going to merge with the Congress. I think it is better for him to be there with the TMC than the Congress.

Take it from me. I am telling you today: The TMC will not come to the Congress and the TMC will remain a rival to the Congress. Tell me, why should they come? They now think they are the vote catchers of Tamil Nadu, even more that the DMK.

They are promising Kamaraj rule in the state.

What is Kamraj rule? This man was asking for that in 1977 and 1989. Why didn't the people vote for Kamaraj rule? Now I am challenging Mr Moopanar. Let Moopanar go to the polls alone. Let us see in how many places the TMC will lose its deposits! Why is he going along with the DMK? Whenever it is convenient for him, he will say Kamaraj rule. When it is inconvenient for him, he will keep quiet about Kamaraj rule.

It is said that you are not on friendly terms with Mr Moopanar.

We don't have any personal enmity. On certain issues and policies, we have reservations.

Did you used to express your opinion openly?

Yes, I used to. Even on his face. I don't do it behind anybody's back. I used to tell him, this is wrong, this is what I feel, so, you convince me. You know, Moopanar is a man of very few words. (Laughs).

So he could never convince you.

Never. He could never convince me.

Do you consider Moopanar responsible for the present state of the Congress in Tamil Nadu?

Yes, When we lost power in 1967 we scored 41% of the votes while the DMK alliance got 42%. This percentage was maintained till Mr Kamaraj's death. After Kamaraj's death, Moopanar took over the reigns of the state Congress committee. So, the major contributor (to the sad plight of the Congress) is Moopanar.

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